"Turnbuckle Madness"
with George Wren
Bull Pain - Part 1
Warning: Explicit Language
GW: There has been many speculations on your "shoot" name being Rick Gantner and Frank Visa has been thrown out there as well. Would you like to shed any light on this?
BP: My real name is Frank Vizi , Rick Gantner, was my name in the AWA before I became one of the Texas Hangmen.
GW: When and Where were you born?
BP: I was born in Mannheim Germany and came over to the United States when I was 2 yrs old.
GW: Where are you residing at the present time?
BP: I am currently living in Louisville Kentucky where I have a home with my wonderful wife and two dogs. A bull mastiff named Homer and a rott husky mix named Grunt.
GW: What are you doing these days and times?
BP: Right now i am working the independant scene and traveling where and when I can. I am also am a bouncer / security guard in a few different places. Actually I plan on going to school this fall and finish my nursing degree. i need to think of the future.
GW: Do you remember your first match? Who was it against? How did it go?
BP: My first match was a terrible one!. First of all I wasn't even prepared for it. I was actually at the show to be a referee and someone didn't show, so I was thrown to the wolves, as you say and was told your working today! Obviously it was a great opportunity but also a very scary thing since I was green as grass or monkey shit if you prefer. I had to borrow some boots and trunks from some guys, and even had to think of a name. I just happened to be reading the sports page at that time. I love the Milwaukee Brewers and Jim Gantner who played for them was in the headlines. He played 2nd base for them and I liked him as a player, so basically that's how I got my name. I just put a Rick in front of Gantner and whala! the match was against a ex bodybuilder named Tod Ludwig ( Lance Allen) he was huge and I was scared. But Lance had worked a few matches already so he led the match and held me by the hand and we got through it. Somehow we pulled it off thanks to Todd because I know I was terrible.
GW: Who trained you?
BP: I was very lucky to run into a few really good guys when I was very young and eager to get into the business. The guys who I give the actual credit for training me
is Tom "Rocky" Stone and Jake " The Milkman Milliman. Back then you had to know somebody or be kin to someone to get into the business it was a very closed family and hard to get in. I had no connections so I had to go the hard way. I first met these guys in a little show on 13th and Lincoln in Milwaukee, WI. They put on a show once a month there and I went to every show and tried to talk to them. They blew me of for a long time but finally my persistence paid off and I actually got a phone number. I called them every day of course his wife would always answer and say he wasn't home when actually he was right there. They did this to me for about 3 months until finally one day he actually talked to me. They wanted to see if I was going to give up easy so I guess being stubborn and (Bull) headed got me at least a chance. Finally after a few meetings with them they agreed to train me. At first all they did was kick my ass and hurt me. Time and time again. They wanted to see if I would come back or not and yes I did. I kept coming back! Finally I was taken out to an old farm house where they had a few old mattresses in the back yard and then they actually really started to train me, learning how to take bumps and things like that. I never got in a ring for the whole summer until the following fall where I was able to train in a ring. They were very hard on me and not only physically kicked my ass they mentally would mess with your head all the time. You as a rookie were in charge of all the details you would have to set up the ring, set up the chairs, and make sure all the guys had drinks, food ect. It was your job without being told. Then you would have to train for a few hours then break it all down and crawl home because they were very ruthless and brutal on you.They actually wanted you to quit.They hoped you would quit, because then you would go and tell your friends yeah I tried to be a wrestler but it is just too hard!!! That's truly what they wanted. But I was too stubborn to quit and too dumb to walk away. so I finally was accepted in the family and have been there ever since.
GW: What promotions have you worked for?
BP: Well I have worked for many many promotions. many that don't even exist today. But here are a few of the main ones. AWA(Verne Gagne) WWC(Puerto rico), USWA,WWF,WCW,ECW,GWF, Mexico, Central America, Japan, Europe, Germany, Canada, New Zealand, Trinidad. I am sorry but I cant remember all the call letters for the groups but like I said many different organizations.
GW: Out of all the promotions you have worked for which one or ones have you enjoyed the best?
BP: I truly enjoyed working for AWA, GWF, WWC in Puerto Rico. Really loved the AWA because it was where I got my first break and also they treated me real well. I always got all of my money and I had many friends in that organization. Global Wrestling Federation with Joe Pedicino and Bonnie Blackstone was also a great place to work we had great crowds and a good locker room. many really class guys and I was lucky enough to be there, thanks to Bill Eadie(in WWF known as Demolition Ax) who saw some potential in me and gave me the chance. Bill was a great man and he would continue to help me throughout my career. Thanks Bill!!! Puerto Rico was a great experience. I learned really and truly how to survive in the ring and outside of it. There were many times we( The Texas Hangmen) had to fight our way back to the dressing room because we had started a riot!!. Plus over there we worked probably every kind of match known to man and it was a great and learning experience. Working their really proved what kind of man your were either you survived or it ate you alive, very brutal and physical. It made you a man that's for sure!!! I also liked working Mexico it took a while for me to warm up to it but once I got over the difference in style and altitude which I might add was horrible. You were so high up and the air was so thin the first few nights I actually had to crawl under the ring and puke because you got so exhausted at first till you got used to it. But after all that it was really a great time plus I was able to travel with some really great guys. Giant Warrior, Chris Benoit, 2 Cold Scorpio,Bam Bam Bigelow, Bad News Brown, Kokina Maximus(Yokozuna, Rodney Anoai), Doug Furnas, Phil Lafon (who worked as Dan Kroffat also) needless to say we had many good times.
GW: What titles have you held?
BP: I have been very lucky in my career and was trusted enough to hold a few belts in my time there are way too many for me to remember but here are a few that I can think of right now. USWA Tag Title(Texas Hangmen), WWC Tag Title, Windy City Tag Title, Bar Room Brawler Title, IWA Mid South Heavyweight Title(Ian Rotten's promotion 5 or 6 times) BBW Heavyweight Title, MCW Southern Tag Title (w/ Todd Morton) and MCW Heavyweight TItle
GW: Before getting into the wrestling business you had a background in martial arts and boxing?
BP: Yes you are right I have been involved in martial arts all my life since I was very young. I have studied many different styles. I also boxed in golden gloves a few times and made it to the state finals. I also fought in a few tough man competitions. I cant help it, I just really like physical confrontations to see who is the better man. I guess its in my blood.
GW: How did it come about you working with Verne Gagne's AWA?
BP: I was very lucky in my career by being trained by Tom and Jake they already were pretty much a solid part of the AWA. They always went up and did tv for Verne. Once they felt I was good enough and looked passable they took me up, and I was given a try. By the grace of god Greg Gagne saw something in me I guess and I then became a part of the AWA. But I want to tell you it was a very long and hard road before they trusted me! And ever let me actually do anything in the ring besides just get your ass kicked!! Being in a "tag team" is like being married. in fact probably worse!! Because actually you will spend more time with your partner then you will with your wife.
GW: You worked with Mike Moran as part of the team known as The Texas Hangmen in the AWA what made you decide to leave the team as Tom Benninghaus (Tough Tom) took over the position.
BP: Mike and I had many great times and also many rocky times the thing that really broke us up was the USWA when you are working every night for 40 - 50 bucks a night and driving over 2000 miles a week it really and truly starts to grind you down. no money, no food, and no fun. Plus it was by far the most political place I have ever worked besides WCW. When you were in the USWA you had to make sure you never made any waves with Lawler or Jarrett. If you got on the bad side of them you would get your walking papers very fast. As The Hangmen we were heels but the fans really started to like us, because we really kicked ass and they liked it we were different and refreshing to the USWA. We weren't the cowardly heels they were so used to seeing well. Once the fans started cheering for us and not them ( Lawler & Jarrett) it was inevitable we would be leaving plus it didn't help that my partner was banging Lawler's rat in Louisville that never gets you in with the boss!! If you know what I mean. Well after we got booted I decided to stay in Memphis where there was work and Mike went back to Milwaukee the distance and the way we split basically ended our partnership. Mike had many different partners before he settled on Tom. I really don't think they ever really had the same magic that me and Mike did but they did do well for themselves I was proud of them.
GW: What year did you Mike work for Carlos Colon's World Wrestling Council (WWC) in Puerto Rico? How was the atmosphere there?
BP: Mike and I worked in Puerto Rico in the early 90's it was crazy and so incredibly wild nothing like we had ever been around the fans, the workers, the atmosphere was so more electric and dangerous that just talking about it gets me excited. The Puerto Rican fans are very passionate and serious about their wrestling and their wrestling stars. The tv was very strong back then on the island everywhere you went you were recognized and stared at even though we wore hoods. It was pretty obvious who we were. I mean to big gringos walking around the island with many many gigs and stiches in our heads I think made it pretty obvious who we were. We fought through many riots and many very physical and bloody matches if you weren't a man you would never be able to hang there that's for sure. At least back in those days not sure what its like now but I am sure it is a watered down version of what it once was there. We made great money there and had the greatest time for two young guys to ever have it was very cool!!
GW: Are you and Mike the same Texas Hangmen version the came through Memphis (USWA) in the 90's?
GW: Later on Moran and Benninghaus went to World Championship Wrestling (WCW) known as Disorderly Conduct. Was you ever contacted by Moran to see if you wanted to be a part of the deal them going to WCW?
BP: No I was never contacted by Mike to be one of the team. He and Tom had already been together for a number of years and they were a good team so it wasnt my place to be there.
GW: What are your thoughts on working with Jarrett/Lawler in the USWA?
BP: My thoughts on working with Lawler and Jarrett are not good. You always had to make them shine and look like stars all the time. Jerry was ok but I really disliked Jarrett [Jeff] because he always wanted to be treated like the boys but he was still office all the time. He was arrogant and a cry baby in the ring. not a good time to be around or work with.
GW: What brought you to Memphis to work for the USWA?
BP: Why we came to Memphis was very simple we were conned by Eric Embry he left Puerto Rico and then contacted us and made us many promises and obviously none of them ever came through. He basically brought us in I think to get even with us because he found out we were making more money than him in Puerto Rico. He was bitter about it so he lied and painted a pretty picture what it was like to be there and we believed him. So we left Puerto Rico and it was definitely the worst decision we could have ever made. Friggin terrible!!!!!! We left the promotion broke, tired, and at each others throats it was a bad time in my life.
GW: Where did you go from there?
BP: After Memphis I went to work for many small groups and finally I was able to get into the GWF(Global). It was a great place to work. It was based out of Texas and we ran every Friday night at the Spotatorium in Dallas. What a historical and great building to run in. The fans, the electricity, and the atmosphere was great. I loved it. I have many people to thank for being there and treating me good. Joe Pedicino and Bonnie Blackstone, Bill Eadie, Grizzly Smith, Skandar Akbar, Eddie Gilbert. All these people were so very good to me and I want to thank them all.
GW: What was it like working for Terry Golden's KAW?
BP: Working for KAW in Memphis was like being a rock star. It was wild, exciting, and crazy all the time. We sold out the New Daisy Theatre all the time packed to the rafters. Rock music playing in the background all night long and just some wild and incredible matches. Very high energy and just plain lots of fun. Terry you were the greatest!! thanks brother I love you!!
GW: When Terry Golden's Memphis Championship Wrestling was born in Memphis in (circa 2000) you and Todd Morton was doing the angle where you guys were from KAW (Kick Ass Wrestling a group that Terry ran before MCW came along) where you and Todd won the Southern Tag Titles. What was it like working with the WWE developmental talent at that time?
BP: When KAW turned to Memphis Championship Wrestling it was awful. No crowds, no good matches, and plainly no fun it was like being back in the USWA. Todd and I were always forced to work these horrible guys who were under contract for Vince. They had no clue but thought they were stars. every night was a chore and every night we had to lead these so called stars by the hand and try our ass off to get a passable match out of them while they were getting paid big money and we were starving. NOT GOOD!!!
GW: Do you feel like guys like yourself, and Todd was held back from the promotion because the developmental talent was there?
BP: Were we held back of course we were.Bruce Prichard lied to our faces every night.always told us the contract is coming. and we believed him he was a terrible guy. We actually believed him it was like he dangled the apple in front of our faces but was never going to give it to us. the only time Bruce Prichard wasen't lying was when his lips wasen't moving. What a piece of crap.
GW: You have worked in Japan plenty of times. Would you rather work in the United States or Japan?
BP: As a wrestler I love to travel that to me is a great perk in being in the business. I have been around the world a few times all on someone else's tab how could you not like that. Yes I love to go to Japan the people are great and it is always a great challenge to work with the Japanese. They are very tough and like to see if they can whoop you, so you have to be on your toes at all times. Very physical and athletic. So yes I love to go to Japan!!. I like working any place I get a chance. I still love the business even after all these years so it doesn't mater where I work. I still love to lace up my boots and give it hell!!
GW: Do you still tour Japan?
BP: I have not been to Japan in a few years I am hoping to get back very soon.
GW: How is wrestling in Japan so much different then the wrestling in the United States?
BP: Wrestling in Japan is very different the fans love big moves and big spots and lots of false finishes. They really don't care about heat or the theatrics of American wrestling. so you can't get the same reaction out of them like in the states. You really and truly have to be in good shape, and work your ass off to get over in Japan, but I love it it makes you realize why you got into the business to be a wrestler not a comic book character.
GW: Didn't you and Bill Dundee own a wrestling school together several years ago?
BP: No!! Me and Bill Dundee never had a school together. I had a school in Memphis Tennessee for a short time. He did however come in a few times as a guest trainer and help my students. I also had a few other great guys like Billy Jack Haynes and the Head Bangers(Mosh & Thrasher). It was a good school I trained my students old school and very tough. I enjoyed it.
GW: Was there actually "heat" between you and Dundee when the split of you and Samantha?
BP: Yes there was a ton of heat between me and Bill for many years because of Samantha. She planned leaving me over a year in advance and took all of our money and put it in a bank account that I had no access to. She sold many of my things without my permission. I would come home from Mexico or wherever I was and some of my things would be gone. Hell she even turned down a chance for me to get hired by the WWF. I was in Mexico at the time and Bob Slaughter called to hire me. She told him I wouldn't come unless she was hired too, so they said no. By the time I got back from Mexico the slot had already been filled by someone else. I WAS PISSED!!! I was stupid to trust anyone her. So basically when we called it quits, I lost everything and she took it all. Was by far the worst time in my entire life. Thank You God!! and Thank You Debbie T. Wild also my brother and friend Terry Golden. I love you both!!!
GW: Were you guys able to work through any differences as far as working on any shows the both of you were on after the incident?
BP: Yes, me and Bill were able to finally bury the hatchet.
GW: What would you say the highlight of your career was?
BP: The highlights of my career are really and truly so many. I have been so very lucky and privileged to get in the ring with some of the greatest men to ever lace their boots. Nick Bockwinkle, Ray "the crippler" Stevens, Verne Gagne, Greg Gagne Jim Brunzell, Ken Patera, Jerry Blackwell, Haku, Masked Superstar(Bill Eadie),Rick Martel, The Road Warriors, The Freebirds, Leon White( Vader) Curt Hennig, Shawn Michaels, Marty Jannetty, Scott Hall, Wild Bill Irwin, Scott Irwin, Stan Hanson, King Kong Brody, Hart Foundation(Bret Hart & Jim Neidhart), The Rougeau Brothers(Jacques & Raymond), Jake "The Snake Roberts, Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin, Dwayne Johnson( formerly The Rock) British Bulldogs(Davey Boy Smith & Dynamite Kid), Mil Mascaras, Eddie Gilbert,Hercules Hernandez, Ricky Steamboat, Harley Race, the list goes on and on. that to me is a highlight that as a kid I could have only dreamed about.
