Feature Article - You Say, I Say

----I sit back last week and printed letters from Mo, Tank, Loose Cannon and Mark Justice. I waited until I had all those posted and I have taken comments from each one of them that I wanted to comment on.

Mo

“And so I say, that yes TLCW has more experienced and more developed guys working for them, but that my talent pool is no less than their talent, just less experienced. And experience comes with time, and in Time they will be as good if not better than the talent that is in TLCW.”

----I get this and don’t get this. I agree and I don’t. I truly believe it doesn’t matter sometimes on experience, because I myself have tons of experience. Could I have a good match?? No way. I believe NBW has a few guys that will be real good and few that ARE real good, but to compare to the TLCW crew – no one holds a candle right now.

“and I promise you, there is no fighting and bitching in our dressing room, about who’s the better worker, or any of that crap.”

----I would agree with your there. That is what has happened with TLCW. They have a real good thing going, but a lot of them on the crew feel like it should be credited to them. The egos are very big. In truth, the reason they drew that crowd the other night was simply because of the WHOLE crew, not just one person.

“exception of Flash Flanagan and Bill Dundee even have the right to consider themselves someone in this business because they’ve never done anything that will go down in the wrestling history books,”

----Does it really matter at this stage what they have done?? The fans in at TLCW could care less about their history. The storylines have made them care about the workers and Flash has been a big part of the storylines. Truthfully they could care less about Bill Dundee. It has nothing to do with what they have done in the past – it has to do with what they are doing NOW.

“these local rinky dinky independent shows even worth the 5 or 10 dollars they are getting, much less 40 or 50 that they are asking for.”

----If these guys have just started in the business, then they should have no guarantee. The guys that have been in this business for at least five years and know how to work, no matter what their egos are – they deserve more than $10 or $15.

“I think you missed it Brian. I actually don’t get paid for what I do in Dyersburg. It truthfully doesn’t make enough money to pay me to do what I do, and deal with what I deal with.”

----After a closer look at the promotion and the bills. I do understand there is probably no money for you to be paid. Best I can figure out from my sources is that anything over $150 gate goes to the workers. $150 pays the bills and rest goes to them. That is fair.

“But the guarantee goes up each week that they stay, if they are putting more asses in seats.”

----I also see nothing wrong with that. I guess that is the best way to conduct business. If that person is contributing to the gate, then give them more money. I just think some of the guys that have been in the business for so long get their chained jerked. First, they have to set the ring up and then promoters start saying, “Well if we draw more..you get more..” and at times that does not happen. Let me state I am at fault as much as the next person here – if you don’t draw you can’t pay nothing.

“But for the record, Alan Steele is my boy, so no matter what happens, I try to get him what he ask for, simply because I’m trying to help this guy make it in the business,”

----This is not anything against Steele, because I believe he is in the top 10 in this area, but if Steele is getting paid a certain amount, and then guys like Tank and Kilo should be making the same amount. Just because Steele is your friend, he should not make more. Ask the “friends” of mine from CCW – our “owners” never got paid and we always tried to give the money to the guy that drove the longest.

“AS FAR AS PAYING THE TALENT IN THE MANNER YOU SAY. I TOTALLY AGREE. MY IDEA WAS 25 DOLLARS PER GUY INITIALLY AND GIVING TOP TIER GUYS A LITTLE MORE. BUT WE HAVE TO GET TO THAT POINT.”

----That would be fair. I also in understanding that the talent gets anything over $150 and no concession and drawing only 60 people does not give everyone $25.

“I WILL SAY THIS EVERYONE ON OUR CREW GETS SOMETHING NO MATTER IF THEY ARE A STUDENT OR OTHERWISE.”

----That opens up a new can of worms. I have had this conversation with a few of the workers in this area. Where do you work the green guys?? Do you use the guys that can’t work worth a shit?? Most people think the green guys do not belong in front of a crowd and my theory is that it hurts the show in general. I have done it also though and groaned at some of those matches. I have also groaned at some of the guys that started when I did in the early 90’s and they still don’t know shit. Do you use green guys and shit guys because they are cheap?? Yep and then it makes your show look cheap.

“ASK ANYONE WHO KNOWS ME, I TRY ALL THE TIME TO TEACH THE GUYS ABOUT THE BUSINESS, ANSWERING ANY QUESTIONS THEY MAY HAVE FOR ME, OR SHOWING THEM ANYTHING THEY ASK OF ME, AND NOT CHARGING 1 RED CENT FOR IT.”

----I do agree that there have been a ton of guys come thru here that have benefited from your help. As a booker or promoter, you can teach just so much, and then they go out and do what they want. No one would ever say Mo is a dummy when it comes to the wrestling.

“EACH ONE OF THOSE GUYS, IF THEY WERE SMART SHOULD HAVE TAKEN THOSE MATCHES AND TAPES AND USED THEM TO CATAPULT THEM TO A HIGHER PLACE IN THIS BUSINESS. I BENEFITED NOTHING FROM THIS, I WANTED MY GUYS TO MAKE IT AND I TRIED TO PUSH THEM TOWARDS THE STARS. UNFORTUNATELY THEY DIDN`T SEE IN THEMSELVES WHAT I SAW IN THEM, AND SO THEY HAVE JUST SETTLED FOR HANGING AROUND WEST TN.”

----I totally agree with you here. Lots of guys say they want to make it, but you got to get out there. You got to send out tapes. You got to wrestle somewhere else besides West, TN. I don’t mean this as a knock on Derrick King, but one reason most of the guys stay in this area, they see DK stays here. DK has been to developmental and has tons of friends in the “big time”, but he prefers to stay here. That not only affects DK, but it does affect the boys. How many guys has DK got a deal with for OVW?? Maybe he doesn’t have the strings to do that now with Jim Cornette gone, but at times he did have the power. DK at least does get guys on Memphis TV. DK also may be one of the most unselfish guys in this business when it comes to money.

Tank

“It goes back to the whole situation of "whose friend or boy you are". Friends get treated a lot better than acquaintances in the wrestling business.”

----I agree with you here and Mo even pointed out that he got Steele more money, because they were friends.

“Dustin Starr, you made the statement about how you feel a certain individual should do everyone a favor and just quit wrestling. Who in the hell are you to be passing judgment? In my eyes and a lot of other people I have spoken with - you are nothing more than everyone else in every little promotion in this area at best. So you have been on Memphis Television. Big fuckin deal. So have I. So you went to do a couple of spots with WWE. Ok, let’s break that up shall we. The ones that come to mind are, your very quick J.O.B.on Smackdown and lets not forget the whole security guard angle where you couldn't even take a superkick right.”

----Starr is still working the indys around here like everyone else, but yes it is a big deal to me to work for the WWE. I was very proud of all the guys that worked the show that night. Even though Starr is a pompous asshole a lot of the times, he also has reason to be sometimes. Dealing with Starr reminds me of dealing with any other sports person that is a prick, but you have to deal with him, because he is making the news and he has talent.

“I know I'm not the best but at least if I never do anything else in this business, I have lived my dream.”

----Well, you got to realize that everyone on this level is doing the same thing. No matter if they are the one wanting more money or asking for more money, they are also living out their dream. I think there are three kinds of workers in this area -- #1: Doing it for fun and living a dream. #2: Trying to make it in the big time and living a dream and #3: Doing it for fun, trying to make it in the big time and living a dream. Guys like Christian Jacobs, Dustin Starr, Jon Michael and a few others in this area fit in the #3 category.

“…some of the talent that thinks their hot stuff just because they have been granted a few spots and look down on others for not getting theirs. That is BullShit!”

----I agree. Why would some guy that has been working side by side with you think that he is better?? Who is Tank?? What has he done?? Well, even if he does fit in the #1 category, it does not make him any less of a worker. I think lots of people could take a lesson from a guy like Flash Flanagan. He treats everyone with respect and expects the same. He also the attitude of being able to have a good match with whoever is put in front of him. The characteristics of a true pro.

Cannon

“I wanna point something out like my colleague Tank did - the NBW show drew around 100 fans a week without no names just your bread and butter workers who's been with the company since day one that to me shows a lot.”

----At what point did the promoters in this area starting thinking that drawing 100 in the building was ok?? I am worlds worst on this also. I will post that the show drew a 100 people and they broke $500 as if it is a big deal, because our expectations of what a wrestling show should draw is so low. The problem is that the fans have come out to watch such shit shows for so long with green guys, old guys, out of shape guys that have promoters that charge $5 to get in that they trust no one, but WWE. This is the reason the WWE can draw with tickets at $25+, but Memphis Wrestling draws 300 people for tickets at $10.

“If your own workers can't make a show then why bring in an outsider. A new worker and pay him more that’s the main point. “

----That is the very reason you would bring in someone else. If they workers on your show are not drawing, then bring in someone to try to mix stuff up. If my guys are only bringing in 100 people, then I need to bring someone else in to help things out.

“Not saying Dustin Starr doesn't deserve the money but why should others suffer or get heat over it.”

----Get rid of some of the guys that have been around forever and still can’t work. Bring in someone like Starr and then maybe the fans will hear that there is actually a guy on the card that looks like a wrestler.

“My point is the guys are who make the company. There is not an outside faction that is going to make a difference. They prove that a week or so ago and plus NBW has been drawing a steady of a crowd long before me.”

----But, NBW is not drawing well. They are drawing 60 to 75 people. I do not consider that good. They are surviving. The only three promotions that draw the best are CWA, All Pro and TLCW. The two former do not run weekly shows. TLCW is the only successful weekly show in this area right now.

Justice

“LETS SAY $25 if this CAN be paid after all of the bills are paid then how many of the GUYS THAT WANT GUARANTEES would stay in this business.”

----I agree 100% here. If the level was raised to just $25, then you would have a more loyal crew and guys asking for more would not exist. If the workers had the understanding that if they drew more, they got more and at what stage do they get more, then that promotion would do better with less fighting and such in the back.

“BUT THEN you have guys that LOVE THIS SPORTS so much that they don’t care if they get paid or not. if there were more that wrestled because they love this sports as much as they say they do then there would be more shows to work .”

----I don’t know about that. I think maybe that is where some promoters take advantage of the workers. If they know you will work for free, then they will book you. If you work for free, then it does not always mean you are one of the most talented in the area or does it?? It makes you look cheap. Do it because you love it, but don’t let people take advantage of you.

“Someone asked me one time at a show was I going to get an autograph or picture from a NAME that they brought in... and here is what I always told them.... HEY IM JUST AS GOOD AS THEM ..... Just because they have BEEN THERE DONE THAT........ WHERE ARE THEY NOW? WORKING THE SAME PLACE I AM.”

----Name guys are mostly brought in to try to bring up the house. The name guy deserves the respect, unless he is just a pompous asshole. I recently got my pic taken with Midnight Express and it did not make me feel like a mark. [ok I am] But, guess what?? They were at the same shitty show I was at and they knew it. Total first class guys.

“So in closing I say take a chill pill quit worrying about MONEY THAT ISNT THERE at this level ...... AND HAVE FUN.”

----I at times think that the people that are just having fun may be killing it for the guys that want to make it big. Lots of workers know nothing about psychology, nothing about kayfabe and can’t do one move right. They are drawing those 50 crowds and when a few people come in and see these out of shape old guys that need to be at home watching on TV or in the crowd, then it hurts the chances of the young guys to make a living doing it.